Thursday, June 08, 2006
Who Killed The Electric Car?
The Consumer killed it. Not George. Not Big Oil. Not Greed. No one cared except CARB and a few hundred consumers that bought the GM EV-1 and Ford Ecostar and Ford Ranger EV (the latter two purchased by fleets).
Saw the preview...I will admit I haven't seen the movie. If the movie follows along the lines of the video, as an acquaintance used to say, "if it's not Scottish, it's crap!" Frankly, for those of us who worked on the EVs, and saw consumer reaction, this crap enrages me.
As some know, I worked on Electric Cars. For 5 years. 1991-1996. Hopeless. Problems:
Where do I start?
- Not enough range (50-60 miles/day)...worse in cold weather states and with AC running
- Not enough charging stations for slow charging (120 v/40 amp plugs) at work places to charge in 12-24 hours
- Not enough charging stations for fast charge (240 V or higher) to charge in 1-4 hours
- Batteries were expensive (Thousands of dollars requiring replacement every 2-3 years)
- Vehicles were very expensive. If sold based on true cost, $30,000 or more each. And that didn't include the battery replacements every 3 years (Minimum $3,000-$7,000). In 1996 dollars, not 2006 dollars.
- Not enough energy/power in most applications and duty cycles. EVs are great 1 or 2 person haulers/commuters in traffic going 50 mph. Or short haul light delivery. Terrible if you're moving lots of people (families) or going distances in stop/go with drains on load (AC, heat, etc.)
- Consumers hate changing behavior...we don't buy cars based on need...we buy them based on want. We loaned EVs to consumers and found that it freaked people out to know that they could get stranded if they didn't charge regularly. I did several trips this Sunday...total of 40 miles in 2 hours with AC running. Various errands. Not in an EV if at 40 miles you realize, damn, I might not make it home. Take a look at the best selling Accord and Camry. 200 hp with lots of electronic gadgetry and convenience that suck power.
- Very, very limited market - movie stars and people with an axe to grind (Nader and various other people who don't mind living an impractical lifestyle). Limited market means low volume which means high cost. You can't build safe cars inexpensively at low volume. Ever notice how low volume cars typically cost $50k and up? Cost of tooling and assembly can't be spread over large production.
- Can't make money selling EVs. In a capitalist market, companies have to make a profit or "GM" happens to them. Massive layoffs and shrinking market share. Out of 17 million new cars and trucks to be sold this year...how many hybrids? Quick, quick!! Less than 1% The only one selling well is the Prius. The rest have incentives.
- The EV1 is/was a 2 seater. Anyone know how many 2 seaters are sold in America in high volume? That's right...zero. The Corvette is the best seller. Why? Two seaters ARE NOT PRACTICAL for ANYBODY. It's a toy/fun car.
Many...yes, many. Conservation is about changing lifestyle and/or making other alternatives more appealing emotionally and financially. We could cut our energy consumption in half if people commuted on bikes. Said this a long time ago in this blog. Lots of people laugh. We solve several problems
- Obesity...Americans are gargantuan beasts.
- Energy reduction...short trips pollute the most and use the most gas
- Potential for reduction in traffic deaths. Bike on bike accidents rarely result in airbag deployment and twisted wreckage. I'll admit...Car on bike is a different story.
And puuuuhhhhhllleeeeaze. Enough with the idiotic electric car initiatives. A 30 Kw battery, that gets 70 miles range and weighs about 800 lbs has about as much energy as a gallon or two of gasoline that weighs 7-15 lbs. Our Ford Ecostar had a 75 horsepower motor. There are no cars sold in the US with less than 150 hp these days. Do you understand the problem now?
More later...when I calm myself.
Comments:
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At the end of your post, you said, "There are no cars sold in the US with less than 150 hp these days."
Just a cursory search of the various automakers' websites turns up:
Ford Fusion: 130 hp base engine
Chevy Aveo: 103 hp
Scion (Toyota) xA: 103 hp
Nissan Versa: 122 hp
Just a cursory search of the various automakers' websites turns up:
Ford Fusion: 130 hp base engine
Chevy Aveo: 103 hp
Scion (Toyota) xA: 103 hp
Nissan Versa: 122 hp
Electric Bicycles and Electric Scooters
Elmo The Electric Bike and Electric Scooter Guy
This is an excellent blog for electric bicycles. There are not too many around like this. Thanks for making this such an interesting subject. Oh, by the way, Wired Magazine has a great article on hybrid cars this month. (Jan 2008 issue).
God Bless,
Elmo
Elmo The Electric Bike and Electric Scooter Guy
This is an excellent blog for electric bicycles. There are not too many around like this. Thanks for making this such an interesting subject. Oh, by the way, Wired Magazine has a great article on hybrid cars this month. (Jan 2008 issue).
God Bless,
Elmo
Watched "Who Killed the Electric Car" recently (great documentary), then i heard that GM and Tesla are making another run at the electric car (yay for progress!) hopefully development of this technology can go on unhindered by the corporations that depend on oil consumption.
@Doug Korthof
I drove the EV1 and knew the engineers. In cold weather or with AC running, it didn't get close to 100 miles. Still, a great design at the time. Just not ready for prime time. Automakers don't control gas prices...if they did, they wouldn't have produced trucks and then went Ch. 11 when gas prices went up.
I drove the EV1 and knew the engineers. In cold weather or with AC running, it didn't get close to 100 miles. Still, a great design at the time. Just not ready for prime time. Automakers don't control gas prices...if they did, they wouldn't have produced trucks and then went Ch. 11 when gas prices went up.
@Simo
Agree on grins in EVs...just need to figure out how to make 24 kwh batteries for less than $15,000!
Agree on grins in EVs...just need to figure out how to make 24 kwh batteries for less than $15,000!
@ EVrider
To be frank, I currently work for an EV car company. When I take customers for test drives, they love it. The most difficult part is the price of the battery. If we can reduce the cost of the battery and then lease it, we can sell lots of them. My $0.02 worth.
To be frank, I currently work for an EV car company. When I take customers for test drives, they love it. The most difficult part is the price of the battery. If we can reduce the cost of the battery and then lease it, we can sell lots of them. My $0.02 worth.
@ Dorri732
You got me on that one...at the time of the post, I couldn't find any sub 150 hp cars. Even my Honda Elements have more HP. But you are correct now. Having said that, 99% of the cars and trucks have more than 150hp (don't flame me...I didn't research that, just a quick look at the charts)!
You got me on that one...at the time of the post, I couldn't find any sub 150 hp cars. Even my Honda Elements have more HP. But you are correct now. Having said that, 99% of the cars and trucks have more than 150hp (don't flame me...I didn't research that, just a quick look at the charts)!
@Autonerd:
I do appreciate your passion, but I did do my research. We loaned the Ecostar to 100 people for 2 weeks at a time and listened to customers.
So you know, I currently work for an EV company (feel free to google away). In cold weather, cars with LiIon batteries get 50-60 miles range when you run the heater.
If you charge using the 120 v Level 1 unit, it easily takes 12-24 hours...depending on your SOC.
I'm not against EVs, I make a living selling them. They are fantastic commuter solutions, but over-hype and poor technology killed us the first time around.
This time, we have better batteries, but if you're knowledgeable, you know that a decent 24 kwh battery runs about $12-$15,000. You can buy a Nissan Versa for that. That's the crux of the problem.
If we can lease the battery and get volume of purpose built gliders to 20,000 plus/yr. we can make it work. The offset and cheaper operating cost makes the EV a better solution. But we need help with battery cost.
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I do appreciate your passion, but I did do my research. We loaned the Ecostar to 100 people for 2 weeks at a time and listened to customers.
So you know, I currently work for an EV company (feel free to google away). In cold weather, cars with LiIon batteries get 50-60 miles range when you run the heater.
If you charge using the 120 v Level 1 unit, it easily takes 12-24 hours...depending on your SOC.
I'm not against EVs, I make a living selling them. They are fantastic commuter solutions, but over-hype and poor technology killed us the first time around.
This time, we have better batteries, but if you're knowledgeable, you know that a decent 24 kwh battery runs about $12-$15,000. You can buy a Nissan Versa for that. That's the crux of the problem.
If we can lease the battery and get volume of purpose built gliders to 20,000 plus/yr. we can make it work. The offset and cheaper operating cost makes the EV a better solution. But we need help with battery cost.
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